John Menadue

John Menadue is the Founder and Editor in Chief of Pearls and Irritations. He was formerly Secretary of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet under Gough Whitlam and Malcolm Fraser, Ambassador to Japan, Secretary of the Department of Immigration and CEO of Qantas.

John's recent articles

Mark Isaacs. Deterring boat arrivals!

Over the past decades of asylum seeker policy in Australia we have heard many justifications for a strict deterrence policy. Border protection, save lives at sea, no advantage for queue jumpers, smash the people smugglers' business model, and, of course, 'we decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come'. At the same time, public debate fostered by mainstream media and by Australian politicians continually refers to asylum seekers by terms such as 'illegals' and 'queue jumpers', terms that we must continually reject as they have no legitimacy in Australian or international law and aren't...

Martin Laverty. Poverty and poor health go together.

In 2008, the World Health Organisation provided an action plan to Australia and other countries to tackle the health disparity between rich and poor which sees an Australian in the lowest group of wealth-holders live with up to three times the amount of chronic illness of a person in the highest wealth-holding group. One year ago last week, Catholic Health Australia and the members of the Social Determinants of Health Alliance applauded a co-authored report of a Coalition, Labor and Greens Senate Inquiry that recommended the Parliament endorse the 2008 World Health Organisations recommendations on how to address health...

Graham Freudenberg on 'The Making of Australia - A Concise History' by Robert Murray

When I was a teenage Tory in Brisbane in the early Fifties, Bob Murray, a bright young spark from the Melbourne Argus was the most persuasive of my newspaper contemporaries who led me gently towards the light. In Sydney a couple of years later, at the end of 1954, in midnight to dawn sessions at the old Phillip Street Journalists Club, we debated the coming of the Labor Split, unwittingly laying the foundations for his classic account The Split Australian Labor in the Fifties (1970). In the halcyon early Seventies, as one of the few people I knew...

John Menadue. Privatising Medibank Pte - who cares?

This is a repost from 28 November 2013. My own view is that all the private health insurance companies, including Medibank Pte are parasitical and undermine Medicare. The only important political issue in my mind is whether the policy holders who have contributed over decades to Medibank Pte should receive appropriate recompense rather than the government taking the money for itself. John Menadue I wont lose any sleep if the Abbott Government proceeds to privatise Medibank Pte. It is anticipated that the sale could realise $4 billion. That will go almost half way towards the $8.8 billion that Treasurer...

Rod Tiffen. Abbott contempt of court.

After the 2013 election, the ABC satirical program The Hamster Decides responded to an election night comment by the columnist for the Australian Chris Kenny that the ABCs funding should be cut with an animated version of Kenny having intercourse with a dog. Kenny demanded an apology and then sued for defamation. It is unusual for satirical programs or cartoons to be the subject of defamation actions, and such cases carry dangers for both sides in any litigation. A jurys reaction to something that in ordinary discourse would be bad taste or disproportionate is unpredictable. On March 6,...

Wayne Gibbons. The boats were not sabotaged.

So we convince ourselves every cruelty weve inflicted beginning with sabotaging boats along the Malaysia coast under Malcolm Fraser isnt a reflection on us. Its tactical. I was surprised and disturbed by this sweeping statement from David Marr in theguardian.com on 5 March. It unfairly casts a pall over the great success of Australias Indochina refugee program led by the Fraser government and the role of the immigration officials involved. From 1978 to 1980 I was based in Malaysia as Coordinator of Australias refugee resettlement programs in South East Asia. Prior to that fulltime roll I...

Susie Carleton. The ABC is at it again.

Dont we all now know from the upright Hon Scott Morrison that decent members of the Australian Armed Services would never - and did not - cause the burning of the hands of asylum seekers under their control. Nor was there any further ill-treatment of a later batch of unfortunates as claimed in ABC 7.30- Report of March 17. Servicemen told Scott - and he told us. Australian servicemen, according to Scott, are above such conduct and it is an insult to our nations Armed Services to think otherwise. Of this he is convinced because there are Regulations and...

John Menadue. An enormous financial heist is underway.

We saw the enormous power of the mining sector when the foreign-owned mining companies forced the Rudd government to ignominiously back down on its super profits tax. For less than $20 million in an advertising and public relations campaign the miners secured for themselves tax savings of over $60 billion. The public interest was surrendered to the mining lobby. Now the banking lobby is well on the way to pushing aside the public interest again. After a lengthy public enquiry and public discussion, the Gillard Government passed the Future of Financial Advice legislation (FOFA). That legislation was designed to...

Azita Bokan. The tragedy on Manus - an eye-witness account.

Azita Bokan was on Manus Island as an official Iranian interpreter during the recent violent clashes. What follows is an edited version of her interview by Richard Glover on ABC Radio Sydney on 21 February 2014. I came to Australia some 27 years ago and am a proud Australian. My father was a writer and had a newspaper of his own. He was imprisoned in Iran as a political prisoner for his anti-government views. I escaped Iran and was forced to wait three and a half years in Turkey for my turn to migrate to Australia. At the time...

John Menadue. Gina Rinehart and the age of entitlement.

It is a bit rich for Gina Rinehart, with the enormous privileges she has inherited, to be telling us that we all need to work harder, cut taxes and curb wasteful government spending. Born on third base, as baseball enthusiasts would understand, does give a very jaundiced view of yourself and others. There is a quite dishonest campaign being run about the need to cut spending and reduce taxes. It looks as if we are being softened up to help the deserving rich. The facts are clear however that Australian taxes are very low by world standards. At...

Fran Baum & Paul Laris. Beware of the crocodiles, they will keep you out of the garden!

We interviewed 20 former Australian Federal and State and Territory health ministers about the extent to which they were able to focus on promoting health, health equity and social determinants of health during their tenure. Social determinants of health are the conditions of everyday life (income, housing, food availability, employment, education) and the structural factors that shape those conditions (distribution of wealth, taxation levels, extent of political empowerment) that combine to determine health outcomes and their distribution. Evidence from the Commission on the Social Determinants of Health showed that action on the social determinants are vital to achieving equitable health...

Walter Hamilton. Calling a spade a spade in Ukraine.

Ukraine, the U.N., the European Union and the U.S. have nine days in which to influence the tide of events in Crimea or witness the second (after the excision from Georgia of South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008) expansion of Russias military and political control beyond its post-Soviet borders. Nine days. Thats how long the Sochi Paralympics will run - during which the prestige-conscious Vladimir Putin is unlikely to declare Full Ahead. Everything about the Russian takeover in Crimea suggests a carefully planned, long-term strategy. The concoction of excuses being offered by the Kremlin, the disinformation about fascist threats...

John Menadue. The lesser royals are on the move again.

Prince William, his wife Kate and son George are to visit Australia next month. What joy awaits us. The weather should be good for a holiday and adulation from Tony Abbott and his monarchist friends. Seeing such a visit, the leaders in our region will again scratch their heads. In this Asian Century why is Australia inviting a British royal to a country that says that its future is in Asia. The visit may give a short-term lift to tourism, but it will again put us on the wrong side of history. The royal entourage will visit Sydney,...

John Menadue. Conservatives, conventions and traditions.

Conservatives extoll the importance of conventions, traditions, and respect for established institutions. But it seems to be only when it suits them. They lecture us and others about democracy, free elections, the separation of powers and the independence of the judiciary. Colloquially they sum it up If it is not broken, dont try to fix it. There is an important convention on Cabinet papers. But the Abbott Government has decided breach that convention and hand over Cabinet papers concerning pink batts to a Royal Commission examining that issue. This is despite the clear Westminster convention as set out...

National Council of Priests - Choosing a successor to Cardinal Pell - a pastor or a prince.

In late February the National Council of Priests met with the Catholic Bishops Commission for Church Ministry. This is an annual dialogue. Fr Ian McGinnity who is the President of the National Council of Priests sent to his colleagues a record of the issues that were raised with the Bishops. The issues raised referred generally to the selection of bishops and archbishops. It has particular relevance to the process which will now be put in motion for the appointment of a successor to Cardinal Pell. In its conversation with the Bishops, the National Council of Priests refers to comments by...

John Menadue. The war on asylum seekers

For political purposes the government has deliberately embarked on a policy and a language to militarise the asylum seeker issue in the same way the Howard Government did in the war on terror. It is designed to highlight the governments resolve, to play to our fears about a threat and to lessen our rights to be informed. Failure to disclose is justified because we are at war. But the war on terror and the so-called war on asylum seekers would in fact be much better conducted by police, customs and our intelligence services. In this misuse of the...

John Menadue. The Carbon Tax and Flat-Earthers.

Despite all the political rhetoric and hysteria, the evidence is mounting almost daily that the carbon tax is largely working as planned and that its impact on electricity prices is quite small, particularly compared with the network costs, the poles and wires, which have been the main drivers of increased electricity prices. But the flat-earthers in the government and News Ltd refuse to face the facts. They have run one dishonest campaign after another on the carbon tax, then pink batts and then the education revolution. We are paying an extraordinarily heavy price for the abuse of power by...

Daniel Brammall. Financial advisers and the conflict of interest.

In December last year the new government announced how it was going to make financial advice more affordable by amending the previous governments Future of Financial Advice (FOFA) proposals (1). Recall that the FOFA legislation was introduced in response to hundreds of millions of dollars of Australians savings being lost in the corporate collapses of investments like Opes Prime and Westpoint, as well as financial planners like Storm Financial. These spectacular corporate implosions and the actions of incentivised planners largely took place between 2005 and 2007 -- in what we now remember as the good times, before the GFC....

Arja Keski-Nummi. Offshore Processing in Cambodia - Really?

The idea of Cambodia as a so-called offshore processing centre is not new. For a nanosecond I recalled the former government contemplated Cambodia as a likely candidate for an offshore processing centre. Thankfully saner heads prevailed, although to their discredit they did also contemplate East Timor. The scramble to avoid doing the decent thing and accept our responsibility to process asylum seekers quickly and fairly is mind-boggling. This government is following in the questionable footsteps of the former government in shirking decency for short-term political gain. Just consider the countries we are using for off shore processing or...

John Menadue. Patriots and scoundrels.

Samuel Johnson in 1775 said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. That brings to mind the patriotic politics that both PM Abbott and the PM of Japan, Shinzo Abe, are playing. In this Tony Abbott will find more confirmation that Japan is Australias best friend in Asia, a term that irritates the Chinese. I am sure that Samuel Johnson was referring to false patriotism, but that is just what Tony Abbott and Shinzo Abe are appealing to in trying to reshape education and public broadcasting in both countries. Teaching children patriotism In October last...

John Menadue. Manus and Nauru and Australia's responsibility in regional processing.

An asylum seeker who comes to our shores must be protected. We cannot offload that responsibility onto another country. We continue to carry a responsibility for that asylum seeker whatever happens in Manus, Nauru or even Malaysia. I have not always held the view that those who come to Australia could be transferred and processed in another country. I changed my mind on that partly because of the rapid increase in boat arrivals after the Agreement with Malaysia fell over in2011. The large number of boat arrivals was reducing public support for a generous and humane refugee program. I...

John Menadue. Cutting waste and costs in health.

Last night on lateline, the Minister for Health Peter Dutton called for a public debate on health reform. I therefore have taken the liberty of reposting a blog of February 3 on 'Cutting waste and costs in health'. The Minister for Health, Peter Dutton, has said that we must reduce waste and reduce costs in health. I agree. In 2011/12 total health expenditure in Australia was $140b up from $83b in 2001/2. Costs are rising rapidly, partly due to population increase. In a paper in July 2007 I estimated that there was at least $10 billion in possible...

John Menadue. Opinion and fact on climate change.

Tony Abbott keeps telling us that climate change is not a factor in the current drought in eastern Australia. Last October he ruled out climate change as a factor in Octobers early season bushfires in the Blue Mountains. He keeps giving us opinions when the facts, supported by overwhelming scientific research, tell us that Australia is already experiencing more frequent and more intensive heatwaves, and that we can expect the number of hot days to continue to increase. He said that the climate change will not be a factor in the drought aid package he will announce soon. That...

John Menadue. The squandered mining boom.

We are now paying a heavy price for our failure to manage the mining boom. The consequences are all too clear, particularly in the manufacturing sector. The mining boom drove up our exchange rate and wage costs. A Sovereign Wealth Fund (SWF) and the Resource Super Profits Tax (RSPT) would have minimised the problems. However, few seriously proposed a SWF. The Coalition and the powerful mining companies did everything possible to destroy the RSPT. The squandering of the benefits and opportunities of the mining boom is causing major disruption across the economy. What have we really got to show...

Andrew Babkoff. The human side of refugees.

(*names have been changed to maintain privacy) There is a significant amount of misinformation and misunderstanding surrounding asylum seekers (in particular boat people) and refugees in Australia. In response, a number of people outside of the mainstream media have highlighted the need for refugees stories to be presented through mainstream outlets. My personal experience as a teacher of refugees and migrants has allowed me to see the human side of the refugee issue by hearing about the stories of people who have been granted asylum in Australia. Below is a reflection I wrote after a numeracy class I...

John Menadue-Refugees - the demographic dividend.

As responsible members of the human family, we have a strong moral case to provide protection for the victims of persecution and violence. There is also a strong case in our own self-interest that refugees almost by definition are risk-takers and entrepreneurial. It can be argued that they are amongst the most highly motivated and determined in the Australian community. Most importantly if we want to see economic growth and rising productivity we need young people. Even the hard headed economists know that it is people that matter and not how they have come here. We need...

Mark Gregory. NBN - ageing copper network and structural separation.

The Australian telecommunication industry is in crisis and centre stage is an ageing copper network that some would have you believe is good for another hundred years and others argue it is time to move to an all fibre access network. But the problems extend far beyond copper versus fibre and go to the heart of what an industry needs if it is to be a successful contributor to the Australian economy. As Australia struggles to find out how this sorry saga will end, questions should be asked of our politicians and telecommunication industry leaders why there is no...

John Menadue. Pink batts and the Royal Commission - a bridge too far.

There are good grounds for Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard to refuse to provide documents to the Royal Commission on Pink Batts. The Royal Commission is a very vindictive act by the Abbott Government. And the government looks like continuing to use other Royal Commissions for political purposes! In separate blogs by Michael Keating on January 8, 2014 and by me on July 11, 2013, we have pointed out the following. 1.1 million installations were completed under the Home Insulation Scheme (HIS) a considerable achievement. The rate of fires during this scheme was three times less than...

John Menadue. Cutting back government spending - does it include middle-class and corporate welfare?

Tony Abbott told his listeners recently at Davos that small government was the best form of government. The Minister for Health, Peter Dutton, has said that waste must be reduced in our health sector. The Minister for Social Services, Kevin Andrews, has told us that our welfare system is unsustainable and has appointed Patrick McClure to review welfare in Australia. And the Treasurer, Joe Hockey, has established a Commission of Audit to look at ways to reduce big government with priority to reducing government outlays. He said that the age of entitlement had to end. But for...

John Menadue. Sharks and asylum seekers

Over the weekend we have seen thousands of people crowding onto our beaches on both sides of the country to protest against the culling of sharks in Western Australia. I happen to think that the protesters are right, that people who swim in dangerous seas know the risks but are prepared to take them. Compared with the carnage on our roads, the number who die from shark attacks is quite minor. But the protests made me ask why we do not see the same protests supporting asylum seekers, fellow human beings fleeing terror of a different sort. Why...

Walter Hamilton. The ABC and its Japanese Cousin.

If the board and management of the ABC need to firm up their ideas about the proper relationship between a public broadcaster and the government of the day they might consider what is happening in Japan. NHK, that nations public broadcaster, is a $7bn enterprise largely funded from television licence fees, with a board of governors appointed by the prime minister. It exerts enormous influence through its highly rating news and information programs, but the situation in which it now finds itselfcriticised for being a mouthpiece for the conservative national governmentis in sharp contrast to the ABCs predicament. In...

Walter Hamilton. A Strategy Less Than Grand: Where the 'New Japan' Goes Wrong.

In a commentary published by the Lowy Institute entitled Japan is Back: Unbundling Abes Grand Strategy*, Dr. Michael Green (Japan Chair at the Center for Strategic International Studies in Washington, DC) analyses the political and economic policies of Japans conservative government under Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and concludes that the overall strategy could be quite effective in enhancing Japans prestige and forcing the cooperation of China. The article is detailed, wide-ranging and informed by high-level contacts within Japan. The credentials of the author and the forum in which his views were aired suggest they are likely to be consonant...

John Menadue. Alcohol and violence on the streets --- the tip of the iceberg.

In recent weeks public attention has been focused on alcohol fuelled violence in Sydney streets and the very slow response of the NSW government. But the response when it did come really only addressed the ugly tip of the iceberg. the violence on the streets. The government response was superficial minimum mandatory sentencing, greater powers for the police, special licence conditions and lockouts and closures. Very little attention was given to prevention and remedial action the widespread social and economic cost of alcohol misuse across Australia as revealed in our workplaces, roads, and criminal justice and health...

John Menadue. Our lack of business and political skills in Asia.

The Business Council of Australia and business executives keep reminding us of the need to increase our productivity by up-skilling and better use of our labour resources. Unfortunately the business sector is spectacularly lagging in equipping itself for opportunities in Asia. Last week The Australian Financial Review surveyed the schools and educational backgrounds of the CEOs of our top ASX100 firms. It found that one third of these CEOs went to secondary schools outside Australia. But not one of them had spent their formative schooling years in Asia. This confirms the dismal record of Australian business in Asia....

Pope Francis - Message on Migrants and Refugees. January 2014

Migrants and refugees are not pawns on the chessboard of humanity. They are children, women and men who leave or who are forced to leave their homes for various reasons, who share a legitimate desire for knowing and having, but above all for being more. Contemporary movements of migration represent the largest movement of Individuals, if not of peoples, in history. As the Church accompanies migrants and refugees on their journey, she seeks to understand the causes of migration, but she also works to overcome its negative effects, and to maximize...

Arja Keski-Nummi. They are us ... and the language of war!

Why are we using the language and methods of war against civilians fleeing war and persecution? Asylum seekers are not our enemies. Our real enemies are our complacency and a willingness to turn a blind eye to the spin we are getting. This reflects the Abbott governments ability to drill deep into our collective psyche of fear with our settler past. What if we lose it all? It conflicts so dramatically with our other self-image of an open, caring and welcoming society. This debate is about much more than people arriving by boat, it is about reshaping an...

Pearls and Irritations - one year on. John Menadue

I launched this blog in January last year. To date there have been 285 posts, just over 5 a week. I hope you have found some pearls and been irritated from time to time. Thank you for your support. I have enjoyed putting together stories that I believe are important for Australias future. I now prefer blogging to speeches and interviews. A feature of the blog has been the support of guest bloggers. This has introduced a range of people with interesting ideas and views. As a result, the blog is becoming more like an e-magazine....

Could we do more to offend the Indonesians? John Menadue

Could we do more to offend the Indonesians? Yes, I think we could by appointing, as has been suggested, Peter Cosgrove as our next Governor General. He was the military Commander who led the INTERFET forces against the Indonesian military in East Timor in 1999. This was much more than just a military defeat for the Indonesians. It resulted in Indonesias political humiliation in the eyes of the world. Indonesia had to withdraw from East Timor with loss of face. I dont think that Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison, in their reading of the Lonely Planet Guide to international relations...

The power of vested interests and why drugs cost so much in Australia. John Menadue

Why does the widely used cholesterol reducing drug Atorvastatin cost $A19 in Australia and $A2 for the same package in NZ? Why does the widely used cancer drug Anastrozole cost $A92 in Australia when the equivalent drug in the UK costs $A3.30. The answer is the political power of Medicines Australia and how it twists the arm of governments. In a blog on January 7, I drew attention to the political power of vested interests to undermine the public interest and good policy development in Australia. I referred particularly to the miners and their role in destroying the super...

Violence is on the decline. John Menadue

If you watch the tabloid television and the Murdoch press, you would certainly believe that violence is increasing. It seems counter-intuitive to suggest that we are moving away from violence. Over the holidays I have been reading The Better Angels of our Nature the Decline of Violence in History and its Causes. It focuses particularly on the West. The book was written by Steven Pinker (Penguin 2011). Pinker is an experimental psychologist and cognitive scientist. He is a Harvard College professor It is a long read, but I found it encouraging. He examines violence in its...

Mission accomplished? Be careful which war you wish for. Travers McLeod

We are going to hold the line, we are going to protect the borders, Scott Morrison, Federal Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, told the 44th Federal Parliament in its first sitting week. Thisbattle is being fought using the full arsenal of measures, he wrote elsewhere. Last week, the Prime Minister defended the secrecy of the battle, saying, if we were at war we wouldnt be giving out information that is of use to the enemy just because we might have an idle curiosity about it ourselves. Whatever the wisdom of Operation Sovereign Borders, Australias military-led, border security operation,...

Health workforce reform. Prof Peter Brooks

As we draw to the end of the holiday period and contemplate the challenges for us in 2014 we might take a moment to think about the big questions in health. We are continually reminded by politicians, media and other (self) interested groups about the cost of health care, the need for more doctors and nurses, more beds, more money -all of which will blow out the health budget even more . We are told that patients will have to pay more (the proposed $6 fee for GP visits) but rarely do we look at what are the real drivers...

Repost. Refugee advocates and offshore processing. John Menadue

This is a repost from 23 September, 2013. The insistence on onshore processing for all asylum seekers is damaging the case for humane and sensible refugee policies. The blanket opposition to any offshore processing is understandable but it is just not working. Just look at the election result on September 7. The important issue is not where processing occurs but whether it is just, fair and efficient. Many of the asylum seekers who claim protection in Australia are not in direct flight from persecution. Most transit Malaysia and Indonesia. Some are asylum shopping. The major political parties...

Asylum seekers - Tony Abbott and I share a Jesuit education. John O'Mara

Like many Australians, I look on the way the Abbott government is handling the matter of asylum seekers with ever increasing dismay. Tony Abbotts mantra stop the boats, is unprincipled, contrary to signed UN agreements and impractical. It is hard to erase the pre-election memory of the Western Sydney interviewee..Im going to vote for Abbott, because hell stop the boats . What dismays me most is that Tony and I shared an educational experience at the hands of the Jesuits and then a friendship that reaches back almost 40 years. Like Tony, Im very grateful for my time...

Journalists are not welcome in Nauru. Elaine Pearson

Dramatically increasing the cost of visas to enter Nauru places severe restrictions from the ability of journalists and others to let us know the truth about asylum seekers being held there. John Menadue Heres an innovative way to discourage foreign media scrutiny of a touchy human rights issue: jack-up the cost of a journalist visa 40-fold, from A$200 to A$8000 (US$178 to US$7108). Thats precisely what the government of the small Pacific nation of Nauru has done, dressing up that skyrocketing increase as a means to increase revenue. The fee is non-refundable even if the visa application is rejected....

Repost: Don't tamper with the Refugee Convention. John Menadue

It would be dangerous to open up the pandora's box of the Refugee Convention. It has served us well. Who would seriously suggest that persons facing persecution should not be protected. Given the world wide agitation against refugees and 'outsiders', a review of the Convention would be a great opportunity for extremists to run their campaigns against foreigners. It would be a field day for the Scott Morrisons of this world. This is a repost from 19 July, 2013. When will the nonsense stop on boats and refugees? A few days ago Foreign Minister Carr suggested that too...

A place of refuge: responses to international population movements. Arja Keski-Nummi

For over 60 years Australia has played a vital role in the development and strengthening of a system of international protection for refugees. It was one of the earliest signatories to the 1951 Refugee Convention. It has been an active member of the Executive Committee of the UNHCR and has held the Chair on several occasions. Australia was one of the key countries in the development and implementation of the Comprehensive Plan of Action for Indo Chinese Refugees (CPA). Two Australians have been awarded the UNHCR Nansen Award for Refugees: Sir Tasman Heyes in1962 and Major General Paul Cullen in...

Is Pope Francis a Marxist?

On 16 December last year, Eureka Street carried an article by Neil Ormerod about Pope Francis and his economic, social and political message. That article can be found on the link below. John Menadue http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=38645#.Us8a9j0XBt8.email

A 100 billion dollar tale of piracy in the Timor Sea. Michael Sainsbury

Although it sits on a vast undersea gas reserve, Timor-Leste remains deeply impoverished. Deep under the Timor Sea, there is a huge reserve of gas. Geologists now believe it is worth upwards of US$100 billion; a figure more than twice the amount estimated by Australia as recently as 2006. It is perhaps ironic that the nation with the strongest claim to ownership of that gas, by dint of proximity to it, is Timor-Leste, which is also among the world's poorest nations. But will it ever get the benefit of it? There have been numerous treaties over the...

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